hay bale 2.0

[Gunnar333]

Here is a screenshot from PC2 - Historic Monza track.
I'm very disappointed.

 

[Pixelchaser]

depends though, I see an argument for them not requiring that much detail. if so far from track. but they can be better at very little cost.

 

[luchian]

Far or not, they still suck . The only thing not bad is the normal map. And even so, they look more like boxes of ply wood than hay bales.

 

[mantasisg]

I don't know if thats still could be a benchmark, but Goodwood FOS track from GT6 is pretty TOP. I can't find a screenshot with bales in focus. I think they are just "bricks" necely textured, perhaps has a few bits of straw sticking out, but doesn't look like much.

Does it look good from every angle ? I wonder if these straws being slightly generic wouldn't seem synthetic.

I would just go for this, maybe camerafacing texture for straws on the top would work, gotta try someday.

just needs slight tweaking to visualize ropes, and more shading around them.

 

[Pixelchaser]

Does it look good from every angle ? I wonder if these straws being slightly generic wouldn't seem synthetic.

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one reason it can work is because straw is very generic. given the frequency of it on offer to the mind, the brain treats it a certain way. so if you want to study it its going to look shit, but travelling past it its part of scenery and that's why you can get away with not having a highly detailed variant and still leaving the scene looking overall nice between everything and being visually balanced. all it needs to say in game is "I'm a hey bale", and that's what they are. one might argue its pointless to concentrate on it even to this level we are. but its worth it imo. as a major and deficient aspect in any sims is the feeling behind natural objects, be it grass, trees or hey bales. that's where strides can be made imo.

 

[luchian]

If you'd have 1 or 2 scatered along the track, yes, this is pointless.
But when you have as many as in Goodwood Hillclimb, then it makes sense to make'em look good

That being said, it's reaaalllly not easy. I've searched the net a little bit, and there is basically no low-poly hay bale that looks decent. What we have seen on this thread might just be the best we can get at this point (without killing fps, that is).

 

[LilSKi]

Pixel's hay bale above using the grass shader and some variation should produce a very nice look. You could go as far as have say 10 slightly different versions all with very slight random rotation and scale.

 

[Pixelchaser]

can lod the extra parts separate to the main box and its impact would be negligible . besides you don't need 3d grass under it. so it maybe adding a few extra polys, but even that is retrievable if necessary through not requiring any 3d grass "behind" it. infact you could take this to the extents that its saving polys from the extents the grass is but now no longer required (depending on the camera views).

this business about up normal being required isn't good though. not sure but I think this is a grouping job and for Ks Trees shaders.

 

[luchian]

That's actually a very good point about not having (or hiding) 3d grass. Cool Pix !
This will be the ultimate challenge: who nails the ultimate hay bale

 

[Gunnar333]

Gunnar333 updated hay bale with a new update entry:

second version of that hay bale

Here is my second attempt for the hay bale.

I have give it so much detail, I find necessary when placing that bale near the track. As you can see we still count 66 verts and 56 polys.
The bale contains two objects - one for the brick and one for the edges ( this 3DGrass method - hairy stuff)
For bales more far away from the track the polys can easily be reduced.

I had to align all Normals to one direction because otherwise it doesn't look smooth enough with all the planes in different...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Mr Whippy]

I'd just add fins like grasses, but on the sides/tops.

Yes polygons, but these are taking up a good chunk of the view all the way up the run, especially at the top, and need that detail.

But also keep a keen eye on the way the bales are made. The weft and weave of the straw in the bales, how the tufts run, the subtle variances in bale shape etc.

Also consider (next year, unless you know a farmer who you can ask) doing some photogrammetry of bales and then rebuilding from that with normal maps etc.
You'd still need fins, but you'll get that realistic shape and variance and stuff from a real bale too.

Maybe 10 bale variants, 200 polys each tops. They should look good to great imo!

But I'd just throw in boxes for now

Dave

 

[luchian]

Also consider (next year, unless you know a farmer who you can ask) doing some photogrammetry of bales and then rebuilding from that with normal maps etc.
You'd still need fins, but you'll get that realistic shape and variance and stuff from a real bale too.

Yes, this ! I totally forgot this possibility, and for this case I think it's ideal. It will make the simple "box" look as good as it can, imo. Even without fins (which you would not see from further away anyway).

Now, who is in the southern hemisphere ? @GT VIRUS
I can do all the processing and reducing the polys. Just need a set of good photos of a bale..

 

[Mr Whippy]

I'd be more than happy to do one bale as a proof of concept and then it can be put in game to see how it looks.

If the track progresses and it's all looking good and we need more variety I can just capture a few more bales to get the variability you'd need (6 bales should be ample as you'd have both sides and could mirror both ways too, so about 48 different 'faces' but 12 totally unique faces that aren't mirrors)

My brother will have a few straw bales in the barn, so I'll just get him to put one down on the floor under an evenly lit section of roof and take pics.
I'd happily share pics so others can play with reconstructions, but naturally I'd want to have a bash myself any way


I think you'd get away without fins for the more open areas of the track, but I think the fins would be very useful for the latter part of the track.
I'd just capture individual straw strands and then cut them up in 3D, distribute them appropriately and then render to texture for normals, alpha and colour, then shade appropriately in AC.

 

[mantasisg]

Don't forget that they use huge bales in FOS.

 

[Willy Wale]

Don't forget bales are made by machines and therefore come in a range of standard sizes. Shouldn't take long to work out which size they use.

 

[Mr Whippy]

I'm pretty sure the ones they use are the ones most farmers bale in around here.

If I remember I'll double check this week coming and grab some pics of he definitely has straw and not just hay.

 

[Gunnar333]

2,5m x 0,90m x 1,20m can be is a kind of standard size.
But from all the photos I have of Goodwood they could be even bigger: At the moment I try 2,5m x 1,00m x 1,60m. Which seem to fit much better.

 

[GT VIRUS]

Is a phone photo good enough to begin with? I'm on holiday and am without a decent camera!