hay bale 2.0

this is the hay bale model I use for Goodwood hill climb

  1. Gunnar333

    Gunnar333 Well-Known Member

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    So what would be the best export format for 3D models then?
    For the hay bales it is important how the normals are set and I don't know if this information is saved e.g. in 3ds?
    I'm using 3ds max but I see some here use blender and maybe also z-modeller.
     
  2. luchian

    luchian Administrator Staff Member

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    Hmm, good question.
    3ds is imported without problems into Blender, but honestly don't know about normals. I guess they would be saved as "normal" normals to faces :D. Will have to try it out when the case, and will compare.

    EDIT:
    Here are all the formats natively supported by Blender

    blender_import.jpg
     
  3. luchian

    luchian Administrator Staff Member

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    Shortcomings of the .3ds file type
    It has been pointed out that, despite its popularity, the format may not be the most suitable for 3D data exchange. Some of the disadvantages mentioned are:
    • All meshes must be made of triangles.
    • All texture filenames are limited to the 8.3 DOS format.
    • The number of vertices and polygons per mesh is limited to 65536.
    • Accurate vertex normals cannot be stored in the .3ds file. Instead "smoothing groups" are used so that the receiving program can recreate a (hopefully good) representation of the vertex normals. This is still a hold-over legacy for many animation programs today which started in the 1980s (3DS MAX, Lightwave and trueSpace still use smoothing groups, and Maya did up to v2.51).
    • Object, light and camera names are limited to 10 characters. Material names are limited to 16 characters.
    • Directional light sources are not supported.
    For reference, here is the list of ID chunks:
    Code:
    0x4D4D // Main Chunk
    ├─ 0x0002 // M3D Version
    ├─ 0x3D3D // 3D Editor Chunk
    │  ├─ 0x4000 // Object Block
    │  │  ├─ 0x4100 // Triangular Mesh
    │  │  │  ├─ 0x4110 // Vertices List
    │  │  │  ├─ 0x4120 // Faces Description
    │  │  │  │  ├─ 0x4130 // Faces Material
    │  │  │  │  └─ 0x4150 // Smoothing Group List
    │  │  │  ├─ 0x4140 // Mapping Coordinates List
    │  │  │  └─ 0x4160 // Local Coordinates System
    │  │  ├─ 0x4600 // Light
    │  │  │  └─ 0x4610 // Spotlight
    │  │  └─ 0x4700 // Camera
    │  └─ 0xAFFF // Material Block
    │     ├─ 0xA000 // Material Name
    │     ├─ 0xA010 // Ambient Color
    │     ├─ 0xA020 // Diffuse Color
    │     ├─ 0xA030 // Specular Color
    │     ├─ 0xA200 // Texture Map 1
    │     ├─ 0xA230 // Bump Map
    │     └─ 0xA220 // Reflection Map
    │        │  /* Sub Chunks For Each Map */
    │        ├─ 0xA300 // Mapping Filename
    │        └─ 0xA351 // Mapping Parameters
    └─ 0xB000 // Keyframer Chunk
       ├─ 0xB002 // Mesh Information Block
       ├─ 0xB007 // Spot Light Information Block
       └─ 0xB008 // Frames (Start and End)
          ├─ 0xB010 // Object Name
          ├─ 0xB013 // Object Pivot Point
          ├─ 0xB020 // Position Track
          ├─ 0xB021 // Rotation Track
          ├─ 0xB022 // Scale Track
          └─ 0xB030 // Hierarchy Position
     
  4. luchian

    luchian Administrator Staff Member

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    After wiki, it seems .obj would be better suited for our situation:

    OBJ (or .OBJ) is a geometry definition file format. The file format is open and has been adopted by other 3D graphics application vendors.

    The OBJ file format is a simple data-format that represents 3D geometry alone — namely, the position of each vertex, the UV position of each texture coordinate vertex, vertex normals, and the faces that make each polygon defined as a list of vertices, and texture vertices. Vertices are stored in a counter-clockwise order by default, making explicit declaration of face normals unnecessary. OBJ coordinates have no units, but OBJ files can contain scale information in a human readable comment line.
     
  5. mantasisg

    mantasisg Active Member

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    I used .obj as export/import format too, recently. But those objects didn't have had specific vertice normals.
     
  6. Gunnar333

    Gunnar333 Well-Known Member

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    Pixelchaser and luchian like this.
  7. mantasisg

    mantasisg Active Member

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    Normal maps wouldn't work on this because specularity is zero. Also texture seems not to fit the size.
     
  8. mantasisg

    mantasisg Active Member

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    In blender it actually looks better, just the rounded edges has messed up the UV a bit
     
  9. mantasisg

    mantasisg Active Member

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    Spent some time trying whats the deal with hay bales. Really difficult to get them. I think in the end it could be best just to use cubes with some deformed geometry and nice textures, so they all could be made to look slightly different by using displacement modifiers.

    I have tried some basic thing to get straws sticking out impression. But it just looks wrong, and I think it would be better without it, less geometry used and cleaner look.

    [​IMG]

    Probably best choice, just simple cube with a bit of extra geometry and a nice texture...
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Gunnar333

    Gunnar333 Well-Known Member

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    but when you'll see them along the line, they'll look like bricks without the extra planes. :(
     
  11. mantasisg

    mantasisg Active Member

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    I was also thinking of how would using camera facing objects would work for bales to get some of those extra straws.

    I don't think you can really give them that much detail without ruining the look from many other angles.
     
  12. mantasisg

    mantasisg Active Member

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    Also your objects seems to have transparency problem, maybe alpha blend would work better, and setting object to transparent.
     
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  13. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Well-Known Member

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    calm down mantas, its a reasonably good resource. 136 polys is a lot for a box though o_O
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  14. Gunnar333

    Gunnar333 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I know it's not the perfect hay bale. But for now it works for me. I will have to see what it looks like when my Goodwood is more progressed.
     
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  15. luchian

    luchian Administrator Staff Member

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    Of course. We know there are lots of ways of doing the same thing. And somehow, it's the simple things which are the most difficult to get right.

    Thank you for sharing :).

    PS: pix, does pC2 have some track with bales ? :D
    Just to study the technique (in case they look too awesome)
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Active Member

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    I never said it is bad, but there are issues. I think there is no way to have proper hay bales in any game. It is the same as to model a carpet with avery bit of fiber. There will never be too much Hay Bales, they are all very different in real life anyway

    Good to have a start for this downloads section.
     
  17. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Well-Known Member

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    its more than doable. just like 3d grass.
    2mins work in a different form, 52 polys 48 verts. and even at that its more than necessary, still more texture needed though or a uv flip in areas will suffice. but thanks gunner,

    here we about learning. and there can be some learning points here so lets have em. this is just my approach. a box and 8 vertical planes with alpha test transparency. (using gunners texture)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2017
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  18. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Well-Known Member

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    FBX is where its at no ?
     
  19. luchian

    luchian Administrator Staff Member

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    Hmm, don't know how expensive is this in terms of polys/draw calls, but looks decent.
    Also, have you seen my above comment Pix ? :D (about spying on pC2)
     
  20. Pixelchaser

    Pixelchaser Well-Known Member

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    pc2 must have some bales I think. cant quite remember now :lol:. have a look later. I stated 52 polys. lets say 60 for max. kunos do hedge rows the same way. just rows and columns of simple planes.
     
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