new CSP +Gravel

[quetillo]

Hello everyone, a new CSP has been released and the Gravel can now be used better, but there is great confusion in all this, some say that dirt_additive you have to change the values and in friction raise it to 0.90, before this parameter was asphalt, the dirt_additive used to be for the mark of the gravel ride, they also say that in case it doesn't work, put,
_EXT_SURFACE_TYPE=GRAVEL in surface.ini on the gravel surface.
With this it should be worth it, apart from the car of course, which is the only thing that is created to test them. But I see that it doesn't have much effect or I won't be able to configure it. Thank you very much

 

[GabenHood]

Here's what I have pieced together so far... As usual it's chinese whispers.

How to create a track with Gravel Physics
To configure gravel physics in surface.ini, you have two straightforward options:

Set DIRT_ADDITIVE greater than 0.7.

Alternatively, set FRICTION less than 0.9 and DIRT_ADDITIVE greater than 0.3.

For the surface WAV file, you can either leave it blank or use gravel.wav.
Using grass.wav or sand.wav will activate grass or sand surfaces respectively.

Here is an example:

[SURFACE_0]
KEY=GRAV
FRICTION=0.89
DAMPING=0
WAV=gravel.wav
WAV_PITCH=1.3
FF_EFFECT=0
DIRT_ADDITIVE=1
IS_VALID_TRACK=1
BLACK_FLAG_TIME=0
SIN_HEIGHT=0
SIN_LENGTH=0
IS_PITLANE=0
VIBRATION_GAIN=0
VIBRATION_LENGTH=0
*

And from what I understand so far; (not facts just putting together bits of information in broken english)
_EXT_SURFACE_TYPE=GRAVEL
goes as the last entry underneath all of the above where I have placed an asterix. "*"
They either have implemented or plan to use this to force gravel and other surfaces sound files and hopefully
remove tarmac tyre squeal from occuring at unwanted times.

Having said all that, the tyres they're using have crazy grip, arcade gran turismo spec so I am hoping someone that has actually driven a car on dirt makes some tyres or I will be looking at porting my tracks to BeamNG instead.

 

[quetillo]

Dirt additive before I think now because I used it and I've seen that it's still the same. A 1 is for gravel and it releases a lot of dust and marks the tires and if you lower it to 0.3 it releases less dust and does not mark the tires

 

[Christoph Leipold]

Hi! I am working on a historic 1930s Pikes Peak from scratch based on downloadable LIDAR data from Colorado State.
It is nearly finished but I am struggling with this "DIRT_ADDITIVE" parameter:
If I set it to bigger then zero, the tires will add up dirt continously until they are stuck with dirt and lose maybe 30% grip.
The higher you set it the faster it adds up.
So on a track longer than 2km your tires are gone no matter how low you get with the parameter. Only "0.0" is OK.
Problem is: I don´t get any dust behind the wheels anymore.
How can I create that?

 

[fughettaboutit]

i might be wrong, but dirt_additive is only 1 or 0 / on or off

try friction below 0.9 (ie 0.899)

 

[Christoph Leipold]

i might be wrong, but dirt_additive is only 1 or 0 / on or off

try friction below 0.9 (ie 0.899)

I tried it on my Pikes 1930´s gravel track:
Tires get stuck with dirt after ca.300m @1.0 / ca.800m@0.3 / ca.2.7km@0.1.
The screenshot attached is only the thumbnail - have to reupload.
I have no clue how far the friction gets reduced - and if it is the same amount for DX and DY - but is very bad for my tires development as my parameters in the tires .ini are totally useless after that.
It can be set at any value>0
I set it to 5 for the soft gravel on the edge so you have to avoid cutting the corners or your tires get dirty within a few meters.
But as I said: I now have no dust clouds behind the car and it looks like Pikes in 1994 after the use of dust blockers on the gravel. But I need the dusty surface of the 1930´s
So I am not happy.

I set the friction to 0.7 and the tire DXref to 0.9 this way I get within the 16:30 minutes that Glen Shultz or Louis Unser achieved.
The car (Maserati 8C-2800) is set to 65% engine power to simulate the power loss within the high altitude.
Better drivers might go below the 16:00

 

[Rob Pawn]

well, the DIRT ADDITIV makes the gutter/gouge (wheel ruts) into the surface
and adds dust and dirt flying around.
The value from 0.0 to 1.0 regulate the intensity.
Under 0.5 the wheel ruts get obviously less deep.
Dirt and Dust still swirl up, a bit less at least.
With 0 all is turned off.

FRICTION higher than 0.89 let the Tires squeak like on Tarmac which we dont want on Sand/Gravel Roads!

@Christoph Leipold: Could it maybe a CSP setting for Particles? Did you got rid of smoke settings or something similar?

____________________________________________________
I use those values atm for some Rally Stages

[SURFACE_7]
KEY=GRAVEL
FRICTION=0.89
DAMPING=0.01
WAV=sand.wav
WAV_PITCH=-0.5
FF_EFFECT=NULL
DIRT_ADDITIVE=0.86
IS_VALID_TRACK=1
BLACK_FLAG_TIME=0
SIN_HEIGHT=0.01
SIN_LENGTH=0.4
IS_PITLANE=0
VIBRATION_GAIN=0
VIBRATION_LENGTH=0

 

[Christoph Leipold]

I had wished to get an answer for the amount of grip reduction by dirt add-up on the tires.
How the dirt built up to the tires work . I already tested that:

 

[Christoph Leipold]

I also found that dirt adds up to the tires between 0.0 ... 5.0 - within a given distance depending on the setting of "DIRT_ADDITIVE="

 

[Christoph Leipold]

I also know about the visual tire grooves depending on that parameter and the dust cloud behind the wheels.
What I wanted to know is: If I set this parameter to zero - thus avoiding all interception with my tires.ini parameters - how can I still create some dust cloud behind the wheels.
If there is no way for that - I need to know by how many % this "dirt" on the tires will reduce my friction parameters - so I can compensate that by going from DY_REF=0.9 to let´s say = 1.3 or 1.5 or whatever.
But as of now - this is total guess work , which I wanted to avoid.

 

[Christoph Leipold]

Problem solved!?? Partially at least.
Dust cloud behind the wheels: You get it only with will only with DIRT_ADDITIVE=>0.0
So your tires will get stuck with dirt after some driving distance depending on how high you set the parameter. I set it to DIRT_ADDITIVE=10.0 so the tires are dirty after 20m of driving.
How about the grip loss: I tested on the Skidpad track with the G-Meter app and read a value of 0.75 for clean tires and 0.6 for dirty tires - so friction factor might be 0.8 for completely dirty tires (equal for lateral and longitudinal grip).
To compensate for that I raised my track friction from 0.7 to 0.87 (this avoids also the tire squeal which occurs at friction levels above 0.9 for me).
Everything fine? Still no dust clouds. Although it is very nice on my other gravel tracks.
One difference though: I had the track surface covered with GRASS_FX using stones textures to generate some "gravel surface".
When I removed that, the dust cloud was there in very impressive form.

Conclusion: You can´t always get what you want (Mick Jagger)
I think I leave it that way and will go for a 0.9 version of my PIKES-1930 track

 

[quetillo]

Problem solved!?? Partially at least.
Dust cloud behind the wheels: You get it only with will only with DIRT_ADDITIVE=>0.0
So your tires will get stuck with dirt after some driving distance depending on how high you set the parameter. I set it to DIRT_ADDITIVE=10.0 so the tires are dirty after 20m of driving.
How about the grip loss: I tested on the Skidpad track with the G-Meter app and read a value of 0.75 for clean tires and 0.6 for dirty tires - so friction factor might be 0.8 for completely dirty tires (equal for lateral and longitudinal grip).
To compensate for that I raised my track friction from 0.7 to 0.87 (this avoids also the tire squeal which occurs at friction levels above 0.9 for me).
Everything fine? Still no dust clouds. Although it is very nice on my other gravel tracks.
One difference though: I had the track surface covered with GRASS_FX using stones textures to generate some "gravel surface".
When I removed that, the dust cloud was there in very impressive form.
View attachment 8535

Conclusion: You can´t always get what you want (Mick Jagger)
I think I leave it that way and will go for a 0.9 version of my PIKES-1930 track

I used the dirt additive between 0.2 and 0.4 so I removed those tread so annoying that it looked like mud and not gravel and by the way it raised less dust, I think that what they said about recording physics is hardly appreciated, since I continue to use the same parameters. Because it was always up to 0.89 gravel and 0.90 asphalt follows the same grip, what changes is the physics of the car. I don't see much changed